What Results Can Lawyers Expect From Marketing?
Natalie: Hi, everyone. My name is Natalie.
Sasha: Hey, and I’m Sasha Berson.
Natalie: And the question that we got today from Gina, she’s an attorney and she’s asking, “What results can I expect from marketing?”
Natalie: And I think this is a broader question, what result I can expect from a website, marketing, or any activities that I’m doing to try and generate more leads.
Sasha: Yeah, super broad question, Gina. Let me try to answer it more specifically. So, you know what? Lemme take a step back and tell you why so many attorneys are turned away from doing marketing.
Sasha: They have tried marketing and it didn’t work. So, there’s a lot of very healthy skepticism about marketing in the legal world. I totally get that because if you do something incorrectly, that is not going to work and it costs you money. And most law firms are small, so for them, to waste 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, hundreds of thousand dollars is a lot of money to waste, actually, it’s a lot of money for any firm size to waste. But especially for a law firm with capital, it’s a lot of money to waste.
Sasha: So here are the ways that law firms waste money. Money spent on things that do not work include, very often, social media. For many attorneys that practice things like bankruptcy, elder law, family law, criminal defense, what else am I missing?
Natalie: Personal injury.
Sasha: Personal injury, social media does not work. Why doesn’t it work? Because Twitter, Facebook Google Plus, et cetera are for branding type of marketing. Many people do not search there to buy service in most instances.
Natalie: But, Sasha, some people can say, “I’m getting some likes and getting some comments there.”
Sasha: Then it’s your metrics, likes and comments do not pay your bills. Like if I could put likes and comments into my pocket and pay bills, I would be all about getting likes and comments, but that’s not how it works, right?
Sasha: The way that it works is the only time that you make money is when you sign up an engagement letter with a client and they should pay you something. Or if you work on contingency, as PI attorneys do, this way this is when you settle a case or win a case.
Sasha: So, likes, comments don’t work. So social media for many types of attorneys does not work as intended. There is a benefit to doing social media for these types of attorneys in those types of practice areas. But that benefit is really small.
Sasha: What also doesn’t work, brochure websites that look like every other attorney’s websites that do not deliver a high rate of conversion. What that means is, if you have a website that converts like 1% of people that visit the website, that is a very low-performance website. We have clients whose websites convert at the rate of 10 to 15%. Which means, from 10 people who visit the website, or not 10, hundred people that visit the website, 10 to 15 of them will actually either pick up the phone and call the office, or complete contact us form and get the dialog going.
Sasha: From those 10 to 15 people out of every hundred that visits them, guess what? Every third or fourth person becomes a paying customer. It is a high conversation rate, so it’s a very high-performance website and it delivers a huge ROI. A huge return on investment.
Sasha: Now if your website is a brochure website or the client cannot tell a difference, cannot tell why they should engage in the conversation with these attorneys, it’s a low-performance website and converts like one or 2%, right?
Sasha: So if it converts one or 2% you might have spent a lot of money on bringing a lot of people to the website, and then they don’t convert or very few of them convert and then you don’t get a good ROI and you feel disgusted because digital marketing didn’t work.
Sasha: Or, you hire a marketing agency or try to do it yourself and you spend money on Google or any other media-
Natalie: And your time as well.
Sasha: And your time as well, right. So there is an investment of time, money, effort. But, the audience that the marketing agency or your picks are wrong. Or the message that they use, whether it’s in the ads or on the website is wrong.
Natalie: And settings. So many settings are in Google ad words that you can just do wrong. So it’s really better not to even try by yourself.
Sasha: Yes, so like I am not an expert in all things PPC, or paid ads, so I don’t touch it because it is complex. Like, it’s gotten really complex because it’s very sophisticated. So when you do it right, like for attorneys, you can achieve incredible results with very high ROI, but when you do it wrong, you’re guaranteed to waste the money that you’re putting into this.
Sasha: So, really there are a couple of ways to really screw it up. Now, on the flip side of it, here’s what you can expect. If you have a high-performance website and high-performance website, once again, it converts a high percentage of visitors into conversations, engagements, right?
Sasha: So lemme give you some industry stats, not industry states, but broad stats. An average website converts at a rate of 2.35%. This is across all industries. So if you’re performing like the rest of them, your goal is to get out of thousand phone calls, or thousand visitors, I should say, you’re going to get 23 and a half calls and/or contact us form submissions, not a very high number.
Sasha: High-performance websites will outperform that metric by the factor of three to five, right? So a high-performance website will get you in a high single digits, or low double digits. This is where you want to be. So when you get a $4,000 website, or $3,000 website, or $5,000 website, rest assured that the agency that creates it, under most circumstances is going to create a digital brochure that is not going to convert very well.
Sasha: Now, this may be fine for your law firm, but not for Gina because she’s looking actually for results, right? But if you’re watching this and all you care about is just to have like a really nice digital business card online, that’s fine. But if you are looking to gain more traction and to add more clients so your caseload keeps increasing and you can build a business, like a profitable business that’s an asset that’s actually performing and delivering profit? That’s a very different game. Your website has to be high performance, too.
Sasha: So that’s one, it has to perform at the rate high single digits or low double digits. And number two, you have to have high-performance digital marketing. And what that means is that for every, I don’t know, five, $10,000 that you invest, you have to have an ROI that’s close to eight to ten. So the factor should be eight to ten, so for every $10,000 that you invest, you should be getting eight to $10,000 in revenue. This is high performance for digital marketing.
Sasha: Now, how does this work specifically? I think we need to record another video where we can talk about what gets you that return. But really the factors that I did mention it, you have to have the right ads in the right places. So think about, your message has to be right, the media that you pick has to be right, right? So for most attorneys that practice law that is serving directly to consumers, not business lawyers, not commercial litigation, but consumer type of law, right? Most of your new clients, if you play it right, are going to come to you through Google or YouTube to a lesser degree, but still, there’s a lot of business to be picked up from YouTube.
Sasha: So, if you do that well if you have the right ads, the right content in the right media, you should be realizing a return of eight to ten, it’s a fantastic return.
Natalie: Times. Eight to ten times.
Sasha: Yeah, what did I say, percent?
Natalie: No, you said, if you invest eight to ten then you should get eight to ten back.
Sasha: Yeah, absolutely. So, for every dollar invested you should be getting eight to ten back. That is a great return. If I could put my money in the bank and be assured that it’s going to, for every dollar, I’m going to get eight to ten back within a reasonable period of time, sign me up, I’m more than happy to invest. But unfortunately, the stock market doesn’t work like that, banks don’t work like that, but digital marketing, when done right, actually works like that.
Sasha: So, this is what you should be focused on, when interviewing, when hiring a new marketing firm, you should be asking them, what return should I expect, and get them to explain how they’re going to generate that return for you and get them to show you some case study how they have done that. They may not review the name of their client, so they don’t become a target but get them to explain how they do it.
Sasha: And here’s one thing that I have learned from Ray Dalio, and Ray Dalio, if you don’t know who that is, Ray Dalio built the largest hedge fund in human history. They are managing 400 billion dollars worth of assets. Ray Dalio’s an incredibly smart man who has grown his business very systemically. In 2017 he published a book called Principles. So over 40 years of his professional life, he has assembled a huge volume of principles which guide him in his investment decisions and life decisions.
Sasha: And one of the principles that I absolutely love is that trust in believable people. And what that means is that whoever you’re going to hire, before you hire them, make sure that they’re believable. And what makes them believable is their ability to show you that they have succeeded in the arena where you want to succeed and their ability to thoroughly explain how they’re going to help you achieve the results, the success that you actually want.
Sasha: If they cannot deliver either one of those two, don’t hire them. So for you attorneys, or whatever business you might be in and you’re looking to hire a digital marketing agency, make sure that you’re hiring believable people. And how you decide whether they’re believable or not, one, case studies that show that they have achieved the results that you want, two, a very clear explanation, beyond any reasonable doubt, how they’re going to help you achieve those results. If they cannot explain this well enough, they don’t know it well enough, don’t hire them. Hire only believable people that can show you case studies, and be able to very clearly explain to you how they’re going to help you achieve those results.
Sasha: I think that’s a wrap. That’s a pretty lengthy video.
Natalie: Thank you.
Sasha: Thanks for watching.